Yaoi games

[rev.tsukiyama]

I have a particulare grudge against Catholicism. Grr silly, damaging religion. Nice sense of ceremony and paraphanalia, though...
And didnt the pope have a family back in Poland? @.@

Male Colours by Mark Mc Lelland, or something? I've picked it up in the bookshop a couple of times but never read it. Probably ought to. I wasnt sure if it was too vague and academic, though.

I get the feeling that the history of institutionalised homosexuality (indeed, homosexuality as the 'default state' during certain periods) has been written out of japan's history thanks to imported christian morality. They obviously need a pack of yaoi fangirls let on all historical documents and texts to write it back in. In fact, I reckon we'd make some improvements. snerk.

[Risu-chan]

Actually the Japanese haven't imported Christianity much at ALL. Christians in Japan are those weird cultists who have this ceremonial reenactment of drinking their god's blood and it's all eerily gothic and has to involve pipe organ music in some creepy key. ^^;;; (that's why so many 'occultist' anime characters like Subaru go around wearing crosses...)

I think the reason it got written out was as simple as "okay, NORMAL men who just happen to be taking other men because there aren't any women convenient are one thing, but people who are DIFFERENT (i.e. prefer guys) are *gasp* nonconformists." There's an actual Japanese proverb that goes "The nail that sticks out gets pounded flat."

Although Western culture is down on homosexuality in specific, Japanese culture is pretty much down on ANYTHING that's not like the norm... at least in real life. Which is why there are so many fantasy outlets in manga; any salaryman or office lady who actually went around expressing some of the freedoms of opinion that manga characters can express would be in deep deep doodoo...

As for vague and academic... er... let's just say "no." Actually, it's... er... illustrated, rather enthusiastically illustrated in fact... old-time artists were, er,(sweatdrop) ...the best word is 'enthusiastic,' yeah... [img]redface.gif[/img]

[yukawai]

My parents are catholic, and I think their POV toward homosexuality is somewhere near "if there is women around, it's a very ugly thing for men to make out with another men because it's against the rule of nature" and blah blah.

first, I'd like to know why men have a prostate -there- is it isn't because in some sick way nature made them so they can have fun with their own gender? XD

yeah, okay, that doesn't explain much. As for the no woman policy, well, -in the bible- , woman are mostly tentation and often represent satan, so it's almost a tradition now to have men as priest. and since women are tentation, well, a maried man shouldn't be virgin and they can't have a preacher was succombed to tentation before.

Now, I'm no catholic, but if I was one, they say that God is supposed to like like I am. So why couldn't I be gay if that's what I like? It doesn't mean I'll stop liking Good too. And God likes married people, and he likes children. Then why couldn't he love a priest who's married and have children? I never anderstood these parts.

now, thanks Risu for the explanation why manga caracters always wears cross around! I was always trying to figure that out! ^^

Annnd, one time, my sister was walking in a corridor at school,aand there was a pile of books just ouside the library. So she stole one. (yeah, my sis's awfull) And guess what? It was a kind of kama sucra book, almost without any text, only lots of pictures, drawings, and such. Like 200 pages long. And about what? Positions. For Boys and girls first, then for girls x gilrs, and then for boys x boys!! but we're at a catholic school! run by Nuns!

realy, what naughty nuns we have [img]wink.gif[/img]

[rev.tsukiyama]

I always associate nuns with kinky goings on, but maybe I just watch too much dodgy italian art house cinema...

Hey, just look at the amount of arbritary, meaningless judeo-christian symbolism banded around by CLAMP. Or this crazymad thing.

I'm aware of that saying, and the palpable sense of 'conformity or else' that exists in japanese society and has for hundreds of years. Still, I suppose I was refering more to Christian values than the actual religion. Homosexuality as a fashion and the normal sexual orintation was already on a downwards spiral (the beautiful way gave way to plebian sleaze and prostitution) when Japan first began to have contact with the west, and in particular a few optimistic missionaries, but it didnt help when they became aware of the outside world's reactions to what they considered acceptable.

Before this, morality came from the buddhist clergy (is there a buddhist clergy?) and the shogunate who copied them and for a long time, douseiai was exhaulted while joseiai was discouraged. The point being, the /majority/ were gay (by conformity and enviromental factors). The middle and even lower classes felt the need to imitate their social betters by copying them and this meant taking boys as lovers.

It's hard to find reference to lesbianism, btw because all sexuality was expressed in male terms (ie, men's love of acolytes, men's love of women etc) and they didnt seem to care about or notice what women got upto with each other, because women didnt really matter anyway.

On a side note, The 'Geibuumu' (gay-boom) of recent years perhaps shows a tentative move away from such conformity.

Oh and as for pictures, I came across a floating world print in the library (a print! as in many copies sold to the public at some point) apparently depicting Kobo Daishi and a room full of young boys getting up to all sorts of naughty things. I reckon there were as many women buying them as the men they were aimed at. Has anyone actually looked into the history of the yaoi fangirl???